1
00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:05,920
[Music]

2
00:00:11,830 --> 00:00:09,090
welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

3
00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:11,840
from Australia for science and reason

4
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:13,920
[Music]

5
00:00:22,050 --> 00:00:16,850
[Applause]

6
00:00:24,670 --> 00:00:22,060
[Music]

7
00:00:28,150 --> 00:00:24,680
yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

8
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:28,160
episode number 476 for the 3rd of

9
00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:31,250
December 2017 richardsaunders here with

10
00:00:36,370 --> 00:00:33,170
you from Sydney Australia waiting for

11
00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:36,380
the flooding rains apparently there's

12
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:38,840
lots of bad weather on the way parts of

13
00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:41,210
the southern part of our country from

14
00:00:46,780 --> 00:00:44,210
Victoria have been copping lots of rain

15
00:00:50,890 --> 00:00:46,790
and we're on tenterhooks here in Sydney

16
00:00:53,410 --> 00:00:50,900
just waiting for the sheets of rain to

17
00:00:55,330 --> 00:00:53,420
start rolling in and flooding us all out

18
00:00:57,940 --> 00:00:55,340
I'm not sure what's going to happen but

19
00:00:59,950 --> 00:00:57,950
speaking about flooding rain and lots of

20
00:01:01,780 --> 00:00:59,960
water we're gonna kick off this week's

21
00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:01,790
show with an interview with an old

22
00:01:08,170 --> 00:01:03,910
friend of mine Professor Richard Wiseman

23
00:01:11,020 --> 00:01:08,180
why you ask well do we need an excuse to

24
00:01:13,930 --> 00:01:11,030
talk to Richard Weitz oh no we do not an

25
00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:13,940
ever fascinating man however this time

26
00:01:18,670 --> 00:01:16,970
we sort of do have a an excuse as in the

27
00:01:20,889 --> 00:01:18,680
last couple of weeks the topic of water

28
00:01:24,190 --> 00:01:20,899
divining has been brought up in the UK

29
00:01:27,910 --> 00:01:24,200
where it's been discovered that various

30
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:27,920
utility companies are still engaging the

31
00:01:34,149 --> 00:01:30,850
services of water diviners it's

32
00:01:36,899 --> 00:01:34,159
unbelievable and Richard was on the the

33
00:01:40,330 --> 00:01:36,909
media in the UK to discuss this very

34
00:01:42,039 --> 00:01:40,340
strange thing always good to chat with

35
00:01:44,740 --> 00:01:42,049
richard wiseman coming up at the top of

36
00:01:47,289 --> 00:01:44,750
the show following that it's a report

37
00:01:48,730 --> 00:01:47,299
from the skeptic zone live the recent

38
00:01:51,940 --> 00:01:48,740
Australian skeptics National Convention

39
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:51,950
skeptic on where may not chat to dr.

40
00:01:58,359 --> 00:01:54,290
Kyle Cruz on whisky dr. Brad some

41
00:02:00,580 --> 00:01:58,369
skeptics own fans and Heidi and Mandy

42
00:02:02,890 --> 00:02:00,590
Lee and Stefan from the sceptic zone

43
00:02:05,980 --> 00:02:02,900
itself and we get reactions to our live

44
00:02:09,190 --> 00:02:05,990
show and included in Maynard reporters

45
00:02:11,860 --> 00:02:09,200
like a little snippets little snippets

46
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:11,870
from the live show to remind you what

47
00:02:17,199 --> 00:02:14,810
that was all about so what do skeptics

48
00:02:20,199 --> 00:02:17,209
own fans and other people how did they

49
00:02:22,810 --> 00:02:20,209
react to our live show and other bits

50
00:02:24,970 --> 00:02:22,820
dr. Karl talking about what to eat for

51
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:24,980
example then to round off the show

52
00:02:31,059 --> 00:02:26,810
something a little bit different we used

53
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:31,069
to go and do a segment called the think

54
00:02:34,570 --> 00:02:33,410
tank in the early part of the skeptic

55
00:02:36,100 --> 00:02:34,580
zone for some years

56
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:36,110
and would always say we'd run to the

57
00:02:41,950 --> 00:02:38,450
club at the end of the street which is a

58
00:02:43,180 --> 00:02:41,960
club not far from where I live we ended

59
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:43,190
up at the club at the end of the street

60
00:02:49,210 --> 00:02:45,410
the other night for a little birthday

61
00:02:51,220 --> 00:02:49,220
celebration for me and Maynard was there

62
00:02:54,610 --> 00:02:51,230
and Tim Mendham from the skeptics Tim

63
00:02:59,290 --> 00:02:54,620
Ferguson and Lara Benham my wife was

64
00:03:02,200 --> 00:02:59,300
there and who else Tim Tim - and me

65
00:03:04,450 --> 00:03:02,210
yes we're all there a little celebration

66
00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:04,460
and a little chance to have an informal

67
00:03:09,850 --> 00:03:07,280
chat for the skeptics own sort of semi

68
00:03:13,110 --> 00:03:09,860
reminiscent of the old think-tank days

69
00:03:16,870 --> 00:03:13,120
but we do discuss some weird things

70
00:03:19,330 --> 00:03:16,880
including a strange figure floating in

71
00:03:21,940 --> 00:03:19,340
the sky of the Northern Territory find

72
00:03:24,130 --> 00:03:21,950
out later on stay tuned right at the end

73
00:03:25,810 --> 00:03:24,140
of the show for loose ends the segment

74
00:03:28,150 --> 00:03:25,820
where we try to tie up some of the loose

75
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:28,160
ends from the show or give you some more

76
00:03:31,150 --> 00:03:29,690
news and there is some more news to tell

77
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:31,160
you about at the end of the show but

78
00:03:34,990 --> 00:03:32,570
before we start here's a note from

79
00:03:38,380 --> 00:03:35,000
Maynard and Tim Ferguson from the bunga

80
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:38,390
bunga podcast the next live Banga Banga

81
00:03:43,140 --> 00:03:40,610
will be on the 19th of December at the

82
00:03:46,060 --> 00:03:43,150
Herald Park Hotel in glebe in Sydney and

83
00:03:47,860 --> 00:03:46,070
you're all invited to come along for

84
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:47,870
more information to buy tickets just

85
00:03:53,770 --> 00:03:51,170
visit Maynard com a you if you haven't

86
00:03:56,140 --> 00:03:53,780
been to a live recording of a podcast

87
00:03:58,120 --> 00:03:56,150
it's a lot of fun a lot of silliness

88
00:04:01,240 --> 00:03:58,130
goes on which you never get to hear

89
00:04:02,590 --> 00:04:01,250
about when you hear the final product

90
00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:02,600
because it's often ends up on the

91
00:04:07,479 --> 00:04:04,910
cutting room floor as they say the last

92
00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:07,489
bunga bunga live was a lot of fun but a

93
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:09,200
big learning experience for everybody

94
00:04:12,970 --> 00:04:11,090
because it was the first time this one

95
00:04:14,940 --> 00:04:12,980
is the chrismas bunga bunga so if you're

96
00:04:18,130 --> 00:04:14,950
a fan of podcasting you're a fan of the

97
00:04:21,310 --> 00:04:18,140
the humor of Tim Ferguson and may not

98
00:04:23,530 --> 00:04:21,320
come along and we'll see you on the 19th

99
00:04:26,590 --> 00:04:23,540
of December but now it's time for me to

100
00:04:28,870 --> 00:04:26,600
run downstairs run downstairs cook up

101
00:04:31,150 --> 00:04:28,880
some mushrooms in the frying pan with a

102
00:04:33,340 --> 00:04:31,160
little bit of butter I chopped up some

103
00:04:35,830 --> 00:04:33,350
avocado and put them all on a slice of

104
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:35,840
toast while I do that I hope you enjoy

105
00:05:02,240 --> 00:04:59,350
[Music]

106
00:05:05,690 --> 00:05:02,250
and joining me now on the line by the

107
00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:05,700
wonders of the internet from London it's

108
00:05:10,580 --> 00:05:08,160
professor Richard Wiseman hello Richard

109
00:05:12,470 --> 00:05:10,590
hello there how are you I'm very well

110
00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:12,480
very good to catch up with you I only

111
00:05:16,790 --> 00:05:14,820
saw you recently of course in Las Vegas

112
00:05:18,530 --> 00:05:16,800
and it was always it's always great to

113
00:05:20,420 --> 00:05:18,540
see you in person and have a brief

114
00:05:23,510 --> 00:05:20,430
catch-up I meant to interview you but

115
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:23,520
time got away from us well this is it's

116
00:05:27,350 --> 00:05:25,170
lovely it's lovely to spend some time

117
00:05:29,990 --> 00:05:27,360
with you now I'm in North London it's

118
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:30,000
gray it's overcast it's it's far too

119
00:05:35,030 --> 00:05:32,490
early in the morning but other than that

120
00:05:36,380 --> 00:05:35,040
it's it's it's a delight I bet I bet it

121
00:05:38,090 --> 00:05:36,390
you're in Australia I bet it's sunny

122
00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:38,100
isn't it tell me and sorrow you'll be in

123
00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:39,450
the evening so it won't be quite so song

124
00:05:43,460 --> 00:05:41,850
it's it's it's well it's it's bright

125
00:05:45,590 --> 00:05:43,470
sunshine on the other side of the planet

126
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:45,600
right here it's dark but it's warm and

127
00:05:49,670 --> 00:05:47,970
muggy at the moment okay that makes me

128
00:05:52,340 --> 00:05:49,680
feel a little bit better all right good

129
00:05:55,220 --> 00:05:52,350
but speaking of water and the reason

130
00:05:57,290 --> 00:05:55,230
I've contacted you two to have a chat

131
00:05:59,720 --> 00:05:57,300
and we can get on to some other things

132
00:06:01,430 --> 00:05:59,730
in a moment but speaking of water water

133
00:06:03,830 --> 00:06:01,440
water everywhere not a drop to drink

134
00:06:05,930 --> 00:06:03,840
unless you're a water diviner what a

135
00:06:08,090 --> 00:06:05,940
divining is one of the classics of

136
00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:08,100
skepticism it's certainly one of the

137
00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:10,080
topics that got me into scepticism when

138
00:06:15,770 --> 00:06:12,510
I saw James Randi do a special here in

139
00:06:18,020 --> 00:06:15,780
Australia way back in 1980 and it comes

140
00:06:20,270 --> 00:06:18,030
and goes and we investigated every now

141
00:06:22,790 --> 00:06:20,280
and then and I think it's a great lesson

142
00:06:24,410 --> 00:06:22,800
for new sceptics it's a great way to cut

143
00:06:26,930 --> 00:06:24,420
your teeth when to investigate water

144
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:26,940
divining but it's come up again in the

145
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:29,370
news in the UK would you like to tell us

146
00:06:33,350 --> 00:06:31,530
a little bit about that I'm very happy

147
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:33,360
to I didn't actually originate with me

148
00:06:38,420 --> 00:06:35,490
this story at all there's a scientist

149
00:06:40,790 --> 00:06:38,430
here so in LePage and she and her mom

150
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:40,800
was having a local authority round to

151
00:06:47,090 --> 00:06:42,690
check out some leaky pipes or something

152
00:06:49,250 --> 00:06:47,100
and she noticed that the engineers had

153
00:06:51,260 --> 00:06:49,260
brought out some some water divining

154
00:06:55,310 --> 00:06:51,270
rods to try and find the leak heath

155
00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:55,320
underground pipe and so I think that's

156
00:06:58,310 --> 00:06:56,370
all a mom was

157
00:06:59,870 --> 00:06:58,320
surprised and Sally is a bit surprised

158
00:07:02,000 --> 00:06:59,880
and went out and said you know is this

159
00:07:04,460 --> 00:07:02,010
just you or is this what everyone does

160
00:07:07,189 --> 00:07:04,470
and they went oh no no you know the

161
00:07:11,270 --> 00:07:07,199
local water authorities do use divining

162
00:07:13,670 --> 00:07:11,280
rods and so um she wrote the the various

163
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:13,680
water authorities in the UK and they all

164
00:07:18,230 --> 00:07:16,290
wrote back pretty much saying yes that's

165
00:07:19,820 --> 00:07:18,240
that's right we don't encourage our

166
00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:19,830
engineers to do it but if they end up

167
00:07:24,590 --> 00:07:22,110
doing it that's up to them and their

168
00:07:26,330 --> 00:07:24,600
understanding is lots of them do so it's

169
00:07:28,070 --> 00:07:26,340
kind of amazing in this day and age you

170
00:07:30,350 --> 00:07:28,080
know despite all the tests showing that

171
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:30,360
it doesn't work nothing to it

172
00:07:35,420 --> 00:07:32,010
you still have you know lots of people

173
00:07:37,010 --> 00:07:35,430
and experts in in this instance you know

174
00:07:38,770 --> 00:07:37,020
still holding up to bits of bent coat

175
00:07:41,659 --> 00:07:38,780
hanger to find some water

176
00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:41,669
it really does surprise me well I mean

177
00:07:45,710 --> 00:07:43,770
when you if you think about it Richard

178
00:07:48,020 --> 00:07:45,720
from our point of view you and I have

179
00:07:50,659 --> 00:07:48,030
both conducted water divining tests over

180
00:07:52,370 --> 00:07:50,669
these we've both put these things on

181
00:07:54,500 --> 00:07:52,380
video we've explored the topic

182
00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:54,510
extensively so I guess for you and I

183
00:07:58,939 --> 00:07:57,210
especially it would be extra surprising

184
00:08:02,600 --> 00:07:58,949
but what do you think about the the

185
00:08:03,980 --> 00:08:02,610
population at large well I guess I mean

186
00:08:05,570 --> 00:08:03,990
it's all down to personal experience

187
00:08:08,570 --> 00:08:05,580
isn't it so so if you bring out your

188
00:08:10,339 --> 00:08:08,580
rods and they cross and you dig down and

189
00:08:11,719 --> 00:08:10,349
there's the the leak then I suppose you

190
00:08:13,610 --> 00:08:11,729
think there's something to it you're not

191
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:13,620
really gonna be start thinking I know

192
00:08:17,839 --> 00:08:15,210
we'll start digging down you know in

193
00:08:20,330 --> 00:08:17,849
other areas or actually I last week it

194
00:08:22,339 --> 00:08:20,340
didn't works I'll I just make a note of

195
00:08:23,990 --> 00:08:22,349
that in my diary I suppose these folks

196
00:08:27,110 --> 00:08:24,000
are being far more pragmatic and they

197
00:08:28,820 --> 00:08:27,120
they believe this this tool works that

198
00:08:30,770 --> 00:08:28,830
the next stage of the story though was

199
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:30,780
was even more bizarre because we have

200
00:08:34,909 --> 00:08:33,330
from the Today programme on Radio 4

201
00:08:37,820 --> 00:08:34,919
which is the tour flagship news

202
00:08:39,649 --> 00:08:37,830
programme for the the entire country and

203
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:39,659
that's presented one the main presenters

204
00:08:43,699 --> 00:08:41,490
on there is John Humphries who is an

205
00:08:46,070 --> 00:08:43,709
incredibly well-respected and mainly

206
00:08:49,730 --> 00:08:46,080
political interviewer and wonderful

207
00:08:51,590 --> 00:08:49,740
wonderful radio co-host and John is sort

208
00:08:53,300 --> 00:08:51,600
of national icon and so I was asked to

209
00:08:55,699 --> 00:08:53,310
go on the show and talk about so water

210
00:08:58,790 --> 00:08:55,709
divining so I rock up for this interview

211
00:09:00,530 --> 00:08:58,800
and John is normally extremely skeptical

212
00:09:02,930 --> 00:09:00,540
about such things and as I gives

213
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:02,940
politicians very hard time and then

214
00:09:08,319 --> 00:09:05,610
during the interview he reveals that he

215
00:09:11,199 --> 00:09:08,329
himself is a water diviner

216
00:09:14,769 --> 00:09:11,209
and on his farm in Wales absolutely all

217
00:09:17,590 --> 00:09:14,779
me his farm in Wales he has successfully

218
00:09:19,569 --> 00:09:17,600
I think he said twice located water

219
00:09:22,210 --> 00:09:19,579
underground so he's a huge believer in

220
00:09:24,189 --> 00:09:22,220
it and though the whole nation our

221
00:09:28,809 --> 00:09:24,199
nation was was shocked and was very

222
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:28,819
upset that a little bit more skeptical

223
00:09:33,729 --> 00:09:31,970
and so there's a sort of Twitter outrage

224
00:09:35,769 --> 00:09:33,739
about it and he ended up writing an

225
00:09:37,479 --> 00:09:35,779
article in The Daily Mail still

226
00:09:39,369 --> 00:09:37,489
supporting his his point of view

227
00:09:42,819 --> 00:09:39,379
so yeah this this thing kind of grew

228
00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:42,829
legs as it were and it just so shows

229
00:09:47,319 --> 00:09:44,689
that you know this this belief that goes

230
00:09:49,479 --> 00:09:47,329
back approach this or 15th century or so

231
00:09:51,489 --> 00:09:49,489
is still with us you know it's still a

232
00:09:53,499 --> 00:09:51,499
very very powerful belief of some people

233
00:09:55,629 --> 00:09:53,509
well you know I'm not surprised because

234
00:09:58,900 --> 00:09:55,639
you and I both know the mechanism behind

235
00:10:01,329 --> 00:09:58,910
it being the ideomotor action but like a

236
00:10:03,249 --> 00:10:01,339
classic delusion when you're

237
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:03,259
experiencing a delusion you do not know

238
00:10:08,229 --> 00:10:04,850
it's a delusion that's that's the very

239
00:10:09,850 --> 00:10:08,239
essence of it and when the rods do move

240
00:10:13,059 --> 00:10:09,860
in their hands especially to the

241
00:10:15,819 --> 00:10:13,069
uninitiated what else would a logical

242
00:10:21,249 --> 00:10:15,829
person deduce but there is a mystical

243
00:10:22,689 --> 00:10:21,259
force guiding the divining rods actually

244
00:10:25,059 --> 00:10:22,699
was very interesting because in the

245
00:10:26,650 --> 00:10:25,069
interview with with Jah I said oh you

246
00:10:28,929 --> 00:10:26,660
know you dug down and you found your

247
00:10:30,999 --> 00:10:28,939
water but what we're not hearing from

248
00:10:33,340 --> 00:10:31,009
are all the diviners who dug down and

249
00:10:35,169 --> 00:10:33,350
didn't find any water and I said it's a

250
00:10:36,819 --> 00:10:35,179
bit like a dream that comes true you

251
00:10:38,439 --> 00:10:36,829
know it's incredibly striking for you

252
00:10:40,090 --> 00:10:38,449
but you're not realizing that that might

253
00:10:42,519 --> 00:10:40,100
they were you know many thousands of

254
00:10:44,499 --> 00:10:42,529
hours and he stopped me in my tracks he

255
00:10:45,789 --> 00:10:44,509
said no no that's just coincidence he

256
00:10:48,609 --> 00:10:45,799
said were dreaming is just coincidence

257
00:10:50,379 --> 00:10:48,619
but with with dowsing with divining it's

258
00:10:53,109 --> 00:10:50,389
a physical thing because those rods

259
00:10:55,470 --> 00:10:53,119
cross yeah so you know absolutely but I

260
00:10:58,509 --> 00:10:55,480
think his model I think the model that

261
00:11:00,429 --> 00:10:58,519
many dowsers use is that they're

262
00:11:02,409 --> 00:11:00,439
unconsciously picking up cues from the

263
00:11:04,629 --> 00:11:02,419
environment that's unconsciously

264
00:11:07,689 --> 00:11:04,639
transferring via idiom attraction to the

265
00:11:11,169 --> 00:11:07,699
rods unless it's it's an interesting

266
00:11:12,909 --> 00:11:11,179
point I'm not certain that's been tested

267
00:11:15,009 --> 00:11:12,919
I don't know the literature that well

268
00:11:16,509 --> 00:11:15,019
that most of the tests are double-blind

269
00:11:18,730 --> 00:11:16,519
tests you know they're they're putting

270
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:18,740
water in a bucket and you're trying to

271
00:11:21,790 --> 00:11:20,480
find that bucket versus other buckets

272
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:21,800
that don't have water I

273
00:11:26,290 --> 00:11:23,510
don't know whether someone's got out and

274
00:11:28,930 --> 00:11:26,300
actually kind of done something in a

275
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:28,940
very naturalistic way where there would

276
00:11:31,690 --> 00:11:30,170
be cubes

277
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:31,700
like you know the grass being slightly

278
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:32,959
different color or something like that

279
00:11:38,350 --> 00:11:36,560
so it's a kind of intriguing one but if

280
00:11:39,970 --> 00:11:38,360
it has been done I would love to know

281
00:11:41,829 --> 00:11:39,980
the experiments it may well a bit I'm

282
00:11:45,069 --> 00:11:41,839
not an expert on the umber literature to

283
00:11:46,449 --> 00:11:45,079
that level I've I wouldn't say that I'm

284
00:11:48,490 --> 00:11:46,459
an expert on the literature to that

285
00:11:50,259 --> 00:11:48,500
level either however my research has

286
00:11:53,290 --> 00:11:50,269
been extensive and I've never come

287
00:11:55,540 --> 00:11:53,300
across a test in the manner you describe

288
00:11:57,220 --> 00:11:55,550
I would still be tempted however to

289
00:11:59,490 --> 00:11:57,230
invoke Occam's razor and say it's more

290
00:12:03,009 --> 00:11:59,500
likely to be misreporting and not

291
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:03,019
remembering the Misses more than that

292
00:12:06,269 --> 00:12:04,850
hughes from the landscape but I would

293
00:12:08,769 --> 00:12:06,279
certainly not rule that out

294
00:12:10,900 --> 00:12:08,779
yeah it's an interesting I mean the

295
00:12:12,460 --> 00:12:10,910
other what you would have I suspect with

296
00:12:14,319 --> 00:12:12,470
some things like a leaky pipe would

297
00:12:16,810 --> 00:12:14,329
equal be a temporary queue which would

298
00:12:19,930 --> 00:12:16,820
be very very subtle in terms of finding

299
00:12:21,790 --> 00:12:19,940
a well whether I don't know if over the

300
00:12:23,050 --> 00:12:21,800
years you could look at you know patches

301
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,060
of trees and go oh well they look

302
00:12:25,810 --> 00:12:24,800
particularly healthy maybe there's water

303
00:12:28,420 --> 00:12:25,820
in that direction

304
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:28,430
I've got no idea I don't know but it is

305
00:12:33,010 --> 00:12:31,010
an interesting thought because it's been

306
00:12:34,780 --> 00:12:33,020
skeptical about skeptics which we should

307
00:12:36,610 --> 00:12:34,790
but you know that our thought is oh is

308
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:36,620
there something magical going on the

309
00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:37,850
other option is is there something

310
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:40,910
interesting going on that is more normal

311
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:42,560
than than paranormal so it was an

312
00:12:46,030 --> 00:12:44,480
interesting thought and it certainly was

313
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:46,040
an interesting debate he got the whole

314
00:12:52,510 --> 00:12:48,610
nation validation talking about dowsing

315
00:12:55,540 --> 00:12:52,520
well I I'm not surprised and and I

316
00:12:57,310 --> 00:12:55,550
remember stalwart of Australian skeptics

317
00:12:58,840 --> 00:12:57,320
Barry Williams who was the president for

318
00:13:00,790 --> 00:12:58,850
many years actually put that in a

319
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:00,800
documentary I did a long time ago he

320
00:13:05,860 --> 00:13:03,890
surmised or he guessed that that's why

321
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:05,870
sometimes it would appear to work

322
00:13:09,630 --> 00:13:07,760
because what we call the Bushies the old

323
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:09,640
Bush folk the old guys in the bush and

324
00:13:16,180 --> 00:13:12,250
they would get a feeling for the land

325
00:13:18,250 --> 00:13:16,190
subconsciously yeah I mean I mean

326
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:18,260
Caroline my partner comes from a farming

327
00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:20,930
background and so often we'll be out and

328
00:13:24,490 --> 00:13:22,790
she'll just say something I think how

329
00:13:27,370 --> 00:13:24,500
did you know that so the other day she

330
00:13:29,199 --> 00:13:27,380
said well if we were out walking and she

331
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:29,209
saw it we were very quiet we may see the

332
00:13:33,490 --> 00:13:31,610
Fox out over there I said how did you

333
00:13:34,900 --> 00:13:33,500
know there's a Fox over there she said

334
00:13:35,620 --> 00:13:34,910
or didn't you see all the birds just

335
00:13:37,390 --> 00:13:35,630
suddenly scat

336
00:13:39,250 --> 00:13:37,400
yeah she was there's something in that

337
00:13:41,620 --> 00:13:39,260
back Lincoln and there was a fox there

338
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:41,630
so you know it could be some process

339
00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:44,570
like that was very funny about the John

340
00:13:49,510 --> 00:13:46,910
Humphrys interview is that when he wrote

341
00:13:51,460 --> 00:13:49,520
it up in the mail or what he said was

342
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:51,470
that some people in his village had

343
00:13:54,730 --> 00:13:53,360
heard about his dowsing claims when when

344
00:13:56,650 --> 00:13:54,740
they first saw when he first found the

345
00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:56,660
water and that actually tested him in

346
00:14:01,660 --> 00:13:58,450
the village hall with buckets of water

347
00:14:04,210 --> 00:14:01,670
and he'd failed the test right

348
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:04,220
so unfortunately he forgot to mention

349
00:14:09,070 --> 00:14:06,850
that on air so that little bit got

350
00:14:11,140 --> 00:14:09,080
brushed out but yeah he was actually

351
00:14:17,740 --> 00:14:11,150
tested in his local village hall I

352
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:17,750
seemed skeptical folks yeah it's gonna

353
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:19,850
go on isn't it I mean in the equivalent

354
00:14:22,750 --> 00:14:21,680
of us in a hundred years time is there

355
00:14:27,970 --> 00:14:22,760
still gonna be going you know that

356
00:14:29,980 --> 00:14:27,980
dowsing thing I wish the equivalent of

357
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:29,990
us in a hundred years - that's a very

358
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:32,510
interesting point of view and what's the

359
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:34,730
latest is this still bubbling along or

360
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:37,370
has the new cycle sort of died out now I

361
00:14:46,210 --> 00:14:59,340
[Laughter]

362
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:03,880
that's very good yes so it's just a pipe

363
00:15:13,290 --> 00:15:09,650
dream listen is you can join in now

364
00:15:18,010 --> 00:15:13,300
[Laughter]

365
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:18,020
these things as these things do but rest

366
00:15:22,750 --> 00:15:21,110
assured it will be back at at some point

367
00:15:24,250 --> 00:15:22,760
I mean that's the most amazing thing

368
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:24,260
about these paranormal beliefs isn't it

369
00:15:28,450 --> 00:15:26,810
is it's just how they keep on going

370
00:15:31,810 --> 00:15:28,460
we're talking about a belief I think

371
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:31,820
he's whatever is 15th 16th century my

372
00:15:38,170 --> 00:15:34,160
research indicates even further

373
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:38,180
millennia okay not surprising because

374
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:40,610
the basic action even as you well know

375
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:43,730
even if you hold a pendulum on a bit of

376
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:45,530
twine or something like that you get the

377
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:47,690
same sort of thing happening so that it

378
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:49,130
would be an ancient practice

379
00:15:53,140 --> 00:15:51,530
this wouldn't surprise me that's right I

380
00:15:55,180 --> 00:15:53,150
mean the Victorian equivalent which is

381
00:15:56,350 --> 00:15:55,190
table tipping a table moving which is

382
00:15:58,030 --> 00:15:56,360
where you put your fingers very lightly

383
00:15:59,710 --> 00:15:58,040
on a table lots of you around a small

384
00:16:02,170 --> 00:15:59,720
table in it and it moves zactly the same

385
00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:02,180
mechanism I mean that's phenomenal I've

386
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:05,030
done that many times and you know even

387
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:07,040
now if you if you say to that group you

388
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:08,810
know no no no this is idiot motor action

389
00:16:12,820 --> 00:16:11,210
it really doesn't feel like it it really

390
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:12,830
feels like that table is being kicked

391
00:16:16,750 --> 00:16:15,410
around the room it's phenomenal so I

392
00:16:19,870 --> 00:16:16,760
understand why people would buy into

393
00:16:21,790 --> 00:16:19,880
this stuff but yeah yeah it's only some

394
00:16:24,010 --> 00:16:21,800
of these beliefs do so you know drop out

395
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:24,020
but this one just cuz it's the gift that

396
00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:31,010
keeps on giving so yes I do first came

397
00:16:34,390 --> 00:16:32,510
up with the idea because it is a bit

398
00:16:35,710 --> 00:16:34,400
weird to hold to so I suppose it would

399
00:16:39,370 --> 00:16:35,720
have been a twig wouldn't it have been a

400
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:39,380
y-shaped twig that well the ten have

401
00:16:42,610 --> 00:16:40,970
twitched so I guess that's not quite

402
00:16:44,170 --> 00:16:42,620
weird I was thinking is a bit weird to

403
00:16:47,290 --> 00:16:44,180
head into the countryside with two bits

404
00:16:49,210 --> 00:16:47,300
of bent metal yeah first round I guess

405
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:49,220
it's an evolution as these things tend

406
00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:50,810
to well oh yes

407
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:52,790
yeah you you would have seen as I've

408
00:16:58,300 --> 00:16:54,650
seen over the years people using all

409
00:17:00,940 --> 00:16:58,310
manner of devices yes that's right you

410
00:17:02,860 --> 00:17:00,950
say the pendulum and and and so on

411
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:02,870
table tipping a Ouija board is another

412
00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:06,170
example of it so yeah yeah I mean and

413
00:17:11,290 --> 00:17:08,660
it's kind of fascinating because it does

414
00:17:13,420 --> 00:17:11,300
mean that these tiny movements you know

415
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:13,430
just shows how powerful the unconscious

416
00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:15,170
is that they can produce a consistent

417
00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:17,270
tiny movement which when you amplify it

418
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:20,390
is meaningful and yet we're not aware of

419
00:17:24,130 --> 00:17:22,880
that at all so I know some of that data

420
00:17:26,679 --> 00:17:24,140
has been used in some of the debates

421
00:17:28,810 --> 00:17:26,689
about free will and whether all we're

422
00:17:31,570 --> 00:17:28,820
truly in control of our movements and so

423
00:17:34,060 --> 00:17:31,580
on so it's it's all it's a fascinating

424
00:17:36,580 --> 00:17:34,070
world that's why I say so every time I

425
00:17:38,140 --> 00:17:36,590
blunder into my my bed and hit my Sheen

426
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:38,150
I know full well I'm not in control of

427
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:43,850
my movements I do most nights in fact I

428
00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:46,130
get bruises all the time so well that's

429
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:47,990
ripening what else is happening in the

430
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:50,960
world of Richard Wiseman you were very

431
00:17:55,570 --> 00:17:53,510
kind to you autographed one of your

432
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:55,580
books to my nephew which I'll give him a

433
00:18:00,660 --> 00:17:57,050
Christmas time when I saw you in Las

434
00:18:03,070 --> 00:18:00,670
Vegas house ecology working along

435
00:18:05,380 --> 00:18:03,080
qualities quacking along very well

436
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:05,390
made a video for haywire and busy on

437
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:08,000
another project but we have a quad

438
00:18:13,090 --> 00:18:10,130
ecology sort of optical illusion set

439
00:18:15,940 --> 00:18:13,100
which is been out with Marvin's magic

440
00:18:18,490 --> 00:18:15,950
and so that was so much fun because as a

441
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:18,500
kid you know your first magic set it's a

442
00:18:22,060 --> 00:18:20,000
very exciting moment you know you're

443
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:22,070
sort of Christmastime and you take out

444
00:18:25,630 --> 00:18:23,840
the tricks and you realize that you know

445
00:18:29,710 --> 00:18:25,640
it's all just done with a bent piece of

446
00:18:32,019 --> 00:18:29,720
metal and a funny old bit of plastic so

447
00:18:34,149 --> 00:18:32,029
we worked together and created a quick

448
00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:34,159
ecology optical illusion set with all of

449
00:18:38,259 --> 00:18:36,260
my favorite of delusions in the feedback

450
00:18:40,299 --> 00:18:38,269
has been lovely so the idea of kids

451
00:18:41,230 --> 00:18:40,309
opening that and sort of realizing that

452
00:18:43,539 --> 00:18:41,240
what they're seeing in front of their

453
00:18:45,730 --> 00:18:43,549
eyes is a is a construction and and so

454
00:18:48,490 --> 00:18:45,740
on that's exciting and then I'm working

455
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:48,500
on a new book right now which

456
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:50,240
unfortunately I can't talk about is that

457
00:18:56,110 --> 00:18:53,120
it's a secret book but it is a very very

458
00:18:58,330 --> 00:18:56,120
different type of book for me and so

459
00:19:01,000 --> 00:18:58,340
I've been interviewing I all I can say

460
00:19:03,310 --> 00:19:01,010
is interviewing an exceptional group of

461
00:19:05,649 --> 00:19:03,320
people and it's a very very science

462
00:19:07,389 --> 00:19:05,659
eBook it's a very science ebook and I've

463
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:07,399
been talking to an exceptional group of

464
00:19:12,370 --> 00:19:10,610
people watch this space undoubtedly it's

465
00:19:14,889 --> 00:19:12,380
all about water divining in fact the

466
00:19:17,620 --> 00:19:14,899
book that you oughta get my nephew was

467
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:17,630
uh I think was the ten bits you will

468
00:19:26,259 --> 00:19:23,360
always win 101 bets that's right your

469
00:19:28,539 --> 00:19:26,269
copy was very very slim it was just the

470
00:19:31,210 --> 00:19:28,549
ten 101 back so and then that came just

471
00:19:33,940 --> 00:19:31,220
this this notion of you know what a

472
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:33,950
couple of things one is that those bets

473
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:35,840
which date back to Victorian times if

474
00:19:40,450 --> 00:19:38,570
not before are all about using all about

475
00:19:42,820 --> 00:19:40,460
lateral thinking you know you say okay

476
00:19:43,389 --> 00:19:42,830
can you go every is name 50 number

477
00:19:46,419 --> 00:19:43,399
something

478
00:19:48,519 --> 00:19:46,429
fifty words without using the letter a

479
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:48,529
and you got my goodness it can't do that

480
00:19:55,210 --> 00:19:50,570
and then just count from 1 to 50 and you

481
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:55,220
solve the whole of the bet the lateral

482
00:20:00,399 --> 00:19:57,679
thinking and also using everyday objects

483
00:20:03,490 --> 00:20:00,409
and unusual ways so that book goes into

484
00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:03,500
the science of those bets as well so

485
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:05,510
yeah it's all about sort of getting

486
00:20:10,269 --> 00:20:08,000
skepticism and scientific thinking out

487
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:10,279
there but in a hopefully in a more farm

488
00:20:16,090 --> 00:20:14,330
and soft and gentle way in all that you

489
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:16,100
know maybe in twenty thirty years time

490
00:20:19,710 --> 00:20:16,850
we don't have people

491
00:20:23,710 --> 00:20:19,720
water divining in order to ride

492
00:20:25,210 --> 00:20:23,720
underground but yeah so it's it's it's

493
00:20:27,010 --> 00:20:25,220
fun I love all the best stuff and I love

494
00:20:30,370 --> 00:20:27,020
all the ecology stuff I think it's where

495
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:30,380
my sore heart actually lies yeah me too

496
00:20:34,780 --> 00:20:32,720
the term has been floating around now

497
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:34,790
for a long time at last four or five

498
00:20:41,650 --> 00:20:38,720
years is Bigfoot skeptic meaning people

499
00:20:43,630 --> 00:20:41,660
who had heart really are fans of the the

500
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:43,640
old-fashioned stuff the water divining

501
00:20:48,370 --> 00:20:45,890
ESP spooned and monsters that's why I

502
00:20:50,590 --> 00:20:48,380
got into it and and over the last

503
00:20:53,020 --> 00:20:50,600
especially ten years that certainly

504
00:20:55,150 --> 00:20:53,030
diverged more into things like Consumer

505
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:55,160
Affairs alternative medicine anti

506
00:21:00,910 --> 00:20:58,010
vaccination but at heart at heart I

507
00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:00,920
really go back to the to the the

508
00:21:06,220 --> 00:21:04,310
tried-and-true skepticism that's very

509
00:21:08,590 --> 00:21:06,230
interesting isn't it I mean that and I

510
00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:08,600
think I'm with you on that I guess I

511
00:21:12,370 --> 00:21:10,670
mean I think it's you know use the wrong

512
00:21:15,970 --> 00:21:12,380
analogy it's broadchurch isn't it I mean

513
00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:15,980
we can sort out both it the same room if

514
00:21:18,970 --> 00:21:17,510
they're not they're not competitors in

515
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:18,980
any sense

516
00:21:23,650 --> 00:21:21,530
and over at QED this year in

517
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:23,660
Manchester's of British skeptics

518
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:25,910
convention there was some one portal

519
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:28,370
books wonderful talks which were outside

520
00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:31,760
that the mainstream of skepticism so I

521
00:21:38,110 --> 00:21:35,390
think no bring it all on it's it's it's

522
00:21:40,270 --> 00:21:38,120
all good but let's not let's not lose

523
00:21:42,550 --> 00:21:40,280
the kind of old stuff as it were they're

524
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:42,560
the kind of bedrock of skepticism and

525
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:44,480
and they're actually the topics they're

526
00:21:48,970 --> 00:21:46,690
really motivated the forefathers of

527
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:48,980
skepticism because we you know you've

528
00:21:52,150 --> 00:21:49,760
got to remember

529
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:52,160
I mean rave behind them was that cycle

530
00:21:57,580 --> 00:21:54,290
yes you know Ray would the founding

531
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:57,590
fathers of modern day skepticism so we

532
00:22:03,490 --> 00:21:59,840
are standing on the shoulders of giants

533
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:03,500
all being raised in instances Copiah but

534
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:07,250
a short but is that I love ray he's he's

535
00:22:12,610 --> 00:22:08,930
won a few pence as he's shorter than I

536
00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:12,620
am I'm not at all so and Ray was great

537
00:22:15,790 --> 00:22:14,180
Ray was wonderful the convention he

538
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:15,800
really made me laugh I said to him

539
00:22:20,110 --> 00:22:17,810
what's your greatest contribution to

540
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:20,120
magic because he's a magician he said

541
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:20,960
that I said what's your greatest

542
00:22:26,670 --> 00:22:22,850
contribution to magic and he said oh I

543
00:22:31,419 --> 00:22:26,680
never performed very much so

544
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:31,429
[Laughter]

545
00:22:35,299 --> 00:22:33,840
that's the right answer

546
00:22:37,580 --> 00:22:35,309
not not only for Brett I mean that's

547
00:22:40,190 --> 00:22:37,590
just a wonderful answer there's no evil

548
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:40,200
there it's it's modest it's beautiful

549
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:42,720
and yeah there are big big an array

550
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:48,570
yes he's a wonderful gentlemen rant

551
00:22:54,830 --> 00:22:50,370
James Randi together cuz they're roughly

552
00:22:56,450 --> 00:22:54,840
the same height yes that's right that

553
00:22:57,769 --> 00:22:56,460
the first to know if there's a flood

554
00:23:01,940 --> 00:22:57,779
than the last to know if it's raining

555
00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:01,950
that's yes the old guy who's that ya

556
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:03,750
know it's great and you know that these

557
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:05,760
are the guys that did it you know they

558
00:23:11,419 --> 00:23:08,480
put the whole movement together and

559
00:23:13,940 --> 00:23:11,429
partly people curse is no longer with us

560
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:13,950
my chela triticeae isn't a trumpeting

561
00:23:21,620 --> 00:23:17,070
who was the fourth one on that original

562
00:23:24,110 --> 00:23:21,630
set with was it Carl Sagan possibly or

563
00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:24,120
he was an early contributor anyway sadly

564
00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:26,760
an early contributor was sunny ray Randi

565
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:28,740
Michelle oh poor my bin that just those

566
00:23:32,690 --> 00:23:30,690
four actually is really bad I've missed

567
00:23:35,659 --> 00:23:32,700
our fifth person they'll they'll maybe

568
00:23:37,269 --> 00:23:35,669
Jim okok I'm not so anyway anyway that

569
00:23:40,220 --> 00:23:37,279
those were folks that had the vision and

570
00:23:43,130 --> 00:23:40,230
wish we should all remember that yeah

571
00:23:44,779 --> 00:23:43,140
and just I'll wrap up this by saying how

572
00:23:47,149 --> 00:23:44,789
important it is to keep those old

573
00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:47,159
fashioned things in our heads and when

574
00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:48,840
we talk about water divining it's the

575
00:23:52,610 --> 00:23:50,700
gift that keeps on giving to skeptics

576
00:23:55,250 --> 00:23:52,620
because as I said right at the beginning

577
00:23:58,399 --> 00:23:55,260
of the interview four new skeptics it's

578
00:24:02,659 --> 00:23:58,409
a wonderful thing to review learn and

579
00:24:04,130 --> 00:24:02,669
learn from because you really learn how

580
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:04,140
to do a good well-constructed

581
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:06,960
double-blind test when you go order

582
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:09,210
divining I still use it to this day in

583
00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:10,770
the mystery investigators show the show

584
00:24:16,190 --> 00:24:13,350
we do every year for school kids and as

585
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:16,200
I've often thanked you over the years

586
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:19,730
every year we show one of your videos

587
00:24:28,180 --> 00:24:24,690
perceptions to discuss and and I think I

588
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:28,190
mentioned to you at psych on this year

589
00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:32,159
is the first time I run it twice I used

590
00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:34,020
to run it once and the kids got a giggle

591
00:24:39,139 --> 00:24:36,360
out of it but now this year I ran it

592
00:24:41,420 --> 00:24:39,149
twice so they know what to expect and I

593
00:24:43,940 --> 00:24:41,430
think that added a lot to it

594
00:24:45,050 --> 00:24:43,950
interesting yeah no it is great waters

595
00:24:46,190 --> 00:24:45,060
of irony as you say because it's

596
00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:46,200
something very physical they can

597
00:24:49,340 --> 00:24:48,150
experience it and then gets debunked and

598
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:49,350
and that's great

599
00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:50,640
and maybe it's good these things do

600
00:24:54,410 --> 00:24:52,740
survive if you know it imagine if you

601
00:24:55,550 --> 00:24:54,420
said actually the ghosts don't exist and

602
00:24:58,010 --> 00:24:55,560
that literally was the end of that

603
00:25:00,140 --> 00:24:58,020
belief I mean you know the skepticism to

604
00:25:04,790 --> 00:25:00,150
died out in like 1620 or something

605
00:25:06,380 --> 00:25:04,800
wasn't it it gives us something to do

606
00:25:08,380 --> 00:25:06,390
because that's something to do otherwise

607
00:25:10,220 --> 00:25:08,390
we'd just be looking at one another

608
00:25:12,980 --> 00:25:10,230
conventions going I wish someone to

609
00:25:14,570 --> 00:25:12,990
believe something irrational yeah yeah

610
00:25:16,940 --> 00:25:14,580
yes oh heavens

611
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:16,950
I'd have to go back for designing web

612
00:25:23,330 --> 00:25:20,330
pages for banks I think I see skepticism

613
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:23,340
exactly none of us want that yes

614
00:25:28,190 --> 00:25:26,130
especially the banks I can do richard

615
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,200
wiseman professor richard wiseman in

616
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:30,480
london thank you so much for your time

617
00:25:34,190 --> 00:25:32,400
for the skeptics oh now where can people

618
00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:34,200
go on the internet to find out more

619
00:25:37,730 --> 00:25:35,160
about what you're up to

620
00:25:40,220 --> 00:25:37,740
Oh anywhere they like Richard we've been

621
00:25:42,530 --> 00:25:40,230
calm is my website and at Richard

622
00:25:45,650 --> 00:25:42,540
Wiseman on Twitter although those the

623
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:45,660
two main places where I post things so

624
00:25:51,770 --> 00:25:49,650
yes come on board and and and we'll all

625
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:51,780
have fun together we will Richard

626
00:25:55,780 --> 00:25:53,930
Wiseman once again thank you very much

627
00:26:14,139 --> 00:25:55,790
pleasure thank you

628
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:16,580
today this is dr. Karl Karl Chris must

629
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:18,000
be proud to be a skeptic and you can

630
00:26:25,370 --> 00:26:20,130
find out more about me at dr. Kyle calm

631
00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:32,110
[Music]

632
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:36,950
here's main art spooky action at a

633
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:41,610
we've just discovered that there's a

634
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:43,450
green room as we go into the goo and

635
00:26:47,159 --> 00:26:45,129
look at all these people look at all

636
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:47,169
these people standing around we dr. Carl

637
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:49,360
now when dr. Carl gets to the snack bar

638
00:26:53,999 --> 00:26:50,559
what are you heading for there bit of

639
00:26:57,860 --> 00:26:54,009
eggplant dr. cow eggplant I follow the

640
00:27:00,570 --> 00:26:57,870
rule in dietary matters of eat plants

641
00:27:02,610 --> 00:27:00,580
most oh sorry eat food comma mostly

642
00:27:04,049 --> 00:27:02,620
plants not too much and so of some

643
00:27:06,869 --> 00:27:04,059
capsicum which is possibly one of the

644
00:27:09,210 --> 00:27:06,879
richest sources of vitamin C that you

645
00:27:15,659 --> 00:27:09,220
can have eggplant because also kraut

646
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:15,669
dispersant oh yeah if you get the the

647
00:27:18,810 --> 00:27:17,679
active alkaloid is it and then fire two

648
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:18,820
people I don't know if it's an alkaloid

649
00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:20,559
but I think it's kept saying look what

650
00:27:23,549 --> 00:27:21,070
could be

651
00:27:25,049 --> 00:27:23,559
I think it's capsaicin which is the

652
00:27:26,789 --> 00:27:25,059
active stuff and then I've got some

653
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:26,799
eggplant and some mushrooms before I

654
00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:30,490
love we've got some dairy over here the

655
00:27:33,570 --> 00:27:32,529
cheese now how should one approach that

656
00:27:36,570 --> 00:27:33,580
a little bit or not

657
00:27:38,159 --> 00:27:36,580
I love dairy and I'm gonna go for cheese

658
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:38,169
cause that's God's Way of being friendly

659
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:40,720
so I like the blue cheese it's nicely

660
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:45,129
stinky as well this is so even Paulo

661
00:27:50,009 --> 00:27:47,049
purchases diet skeptically which is

662
00:27:53,159 --> 00:27:50,019
great car well I'm just following the

663
00:27:55,019 --> 00:27:53,169
old rule which works which is something

664
00:27:56,669 --> 00:27:55,029
that's been in our culture for thousands

665
00:27:58,759 --> 00:27:56,679
of years but it would vary from culture

666
00:28:03,749 --> 00:27:58,769
to culture so if you all say

667
00:28:05,789 --> 00:28:03,759
Mediterranean or Chinese what is the

668
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:05,799
best food for you could vary with your

669
00:28:09,509 --> 00:28:07,330
genetic background and it's and what

670
00:28:10,350 --> 00:28:09,519
your culture has evolved and I don't

671
00:28:11,970 --> 00:28:10,360
know what it's like when you do the

672
00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:11,980
crossover of Chinese people eating

673
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:13,990
Mediterranean vice versa who lives the

674
00:28:17,789 --> 00:28:16,210
longest at the moment by the way what

675
00:28:19,619 --> 00:28:17,799
what about a race is here on earth and

676
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:19,629
cultures live the longest China

677
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:22,210
Japanese did really well

678
00:28:26,530 --> 00:28:24,170
Spaniards have got a higher life

679
00:28:28,030 --> 00:28:26,540
expectancy than we have they even though

680
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:28,040
they smoke cigarettes which is bizarre

681
00:28:33,850 --> 00:28:32,450
and they drink like fish they do they

682
00:28:35,470 --> 00:28:33,860
also have the CS there which is not

683
00:28:37,420 --> 00:28:35,480
about having a sleep at about having sex

684
00:28:38,860 --> 00:28:37,430
and then having a sleep that makes the

685
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:38,870
difference that what it is all these

686
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:42,410
years well yeah they're going down they

687
00:28:46,660 --> 00:28:44,050
go on home to lie down but not to sleep

688
00:28:47,980 --> 00:28:46,670
well they love another person very much

689
00:28:49,930 --> 00:28:47,990
in a special way they're to go to sleep

690
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:49,940
and they do this weird stuff with sleep

691
00:28:54,450 --> 00:28:51,890
where they that will eat late at night

692
00:28:56,620 --> 00:28:54,460
and they're not following the 12-hour

693
00:28:58,390 --> 00:28:56,630
culet you tell me have a rest rule I

694
00:28:59,980 --> 00:28:58,400
don't know why but they must be doing

695
00:29:01,600 --> 00:28:59,990
something right if they live longer than

696
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:01,610
we do even though they smoke cigarettes

697
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:05,210
which is dangerous actually just talking

698
00:29:08,530 --> 00:29:07,250
to dr. Karl dr. Brad here who's also

699
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:08,540
looking at the fine spread we've got

700
00:29:12,190 --> 00:29:10,910
here the lovely laid out food how do you

701
00:29:13,570 --> 00:29:12,200
figure out what you're supposed to eat

702
00:29:15,910 --> 00:29:13,580
there because your diet Emma's gonna go

703
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:15,920
what's the doctor eating hmm usually

704
00:29:21,250 --> 00:29:17,330
five servings of vegetables every day

705
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:21,260
that's about 94 percent of the

706
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:23,360
population doesn't achieve that in

707
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:25,250
Australia so you know hard sometimes

708
00:29:29,410 --> 00:29:27,440
unless you're eating soup exactly so

709
00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:29,420
always go for the vegetables first now

710
00:29:32,530 --> 00:29:30,710
what about the cheese over there we've

711
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:32,540
got some nice blue vein cheese there dr.

712
00:29:35,410 --> 00:29:33,890
Karl's like a now it's God's Way of

713
00:29:37,930 --> 00:29:35,420
telling you getting fat by eating that

714
00:29:40,030 --> 00:29:37,940
stuff err no well as we get older our

715
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:40,040
taste buds decline and their ability to

716
00:29:43,870 --> 00:29:42,050
function and so we we go first smellier

717
00:29:46,270 --> 00:29:43,880
and smellier cheeses to get the same

718
00:29:47,890 --> 00:29:46,280
effect yeah yeah so it's that their

719
00:29:49,180 --> 00:29:47,900
death of our taste buds are now in our

720
00:29:50,380 --> 00:29:49,190
mouth look I'll let you eat something

721
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:50,390
because you've got a big afternoon of

722
00:29:56,830 --> 00:29:54,890
being sceptical definitely interestingly

723
00:29:58,300 --> 00:29:56,840
enough main out here in the gray room

724
00:30:01,720 --> 00:29:58,310
here something that's completely

725
00:30:04,060 --> 00:30:01,730
untouched untouched dietarily is the

726
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:04,070
family of sort of biscuits this is

727
00:30:07,330 --> 00:30:05,450
interesting bunch of skeptics now on

728
00:30:10,060 --> 00:30:07,340
gear going near the family assorted

729
00:30:12,370 --> 00:30:10,070
biscuits around

730
00:30:14,290 --> 00:30:12,380
yeah I know yes exactly everyone's going

731
00:30:17,170 --> 00:30:14,300
through the fruit the veggies no one's

732
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:17,180
eating that mmm-hmm that means there's

733
00:30:28,330 --> 00:30:27,010
hello look I'm down the frontier at the

734
00:30:29,860 --> 00:30:28,340
recordings about to start and as you

735
00:30:30,790 --> 00:30:29,870
know often the troublemakers down the

736
00:30:33,130 --> 00:30:30,800
front who we've got here

737
00:30:35,470 --> 00:30:33,140
Amanda Amanda now what are you are you

738
00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:35,480
hoping to get out or from this session

739
00:30:40,660 --> 00:30:37,990
with the sceptic zone live recording

740
00:30:43,270 --> 00:30:40,670
unwrite unraveling the mystery behind

741
00:30:45,340 --> 00:30:43,280
the podcast no see how it's all done

742
00:30:46,810 --> 00:30:45,350
heard how it's all done see how it's all

743
00:30:48,490 --> 00:30:46,820
I'm gonna tell you it's on a budget it's

744
00:30:51,940 --> 00:30:48,500
not even smoke and mirrors it's just

745
00:30:53,050 --> 00:30:51,950
smoke be fine look it you know you'll

746
00:30:54,490 --> 00:30:53,060
enjoy it there we've got everybody

747
00:30:55,660 --> 00:30:54,500
they're all your regulars and there's

748
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:55,670
Richard looking a bit stressed because

749
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:56,930
he's gonna put the whole thing together

750
00:31:00,610 --> 00:30:58,640
later he's gonna do all this editing

751
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:00,620
later he needs smoke coffee he does you

752
00:31:03,850 --> 00:31:01,730
need more coffee Richard

753
00:31:05,950 --> 00:31:03,860
yes he's shaking a bit well you enjoy

754
00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:05,960
the show thank you may not look it

755
00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:07,340
because I've gone to the front room

756
00:31:10,930 --> 00:31:08,510
because the back of the room is also

757
00:31:13,690 --> 00:31:10,940
where the troublemakers are I'm along

758
00:31:17,020 --> 00:31:13,700
you how come you're here today because I

759
00:31:18,490 --> 00:31:17,030
love skeptics in science and same fun Oh

760
00:31:20,170 --> 00:31:18,500
might so you are maybe hoping to get

761
00:31:22,180 --> 00:31:20,180
something educational out of this maybe

762
00:31:23,860 --> 00:31:22,190
I'd love that you think she's gonna get

763
00:31:25,330 --> 00:31:23,870
so that's that's great shake as well

764
00:31:26,620 --> 00:31:25,340
yeah bit of shake out again thank you

765
00:31:28,290 --> 00:31:26,630
okay I'll go on the front of the back

766
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:28,300
room that's right now thanking about you

767
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:30,290
you should still looking a bit nervous

768
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:32,230
there bad

769
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:54,370
[Music]

770
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:56,930
[Applause]

771
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:00,000
it's the podcast from Australia mate

772
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:02,010
it's a science and reason and here are

773
00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:04,590
your hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

774
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:14,040
psych yes it's going to be Iran so give

775
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:38,610
a grain of salt so this is a bit of a

776
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:41,760
change of pace for what so further ado

777
00:32:45,710 --> 00:32:43,770
we're gonna move on did I blow up the

778
00:32:49,550 --> 00:32:45,720
system they'll stop we're back in the

779
00:32:52,010 --> 00:32:49,560
bag maybe that should be the theme we

780
00:32:59,090 --> 00:32:52,020
have our next segment which is dr.

781
00:33:02,810 --> 00:32:59,100
Stefan Suika dr. Stefan so I got hi hi

782
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:02,820
I'm dr. Stefan Soyka and I do apologize

783
00:33:12,650 --> 00:33:05,730
but I am here today to expose you to the

784
00:33:13,220 --> 00:33:12,660
greatest conspiracy that looks good

785
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:13,230
enough to eat

786
00:33:42,050 --> 00:33:39,050
is the diet skeptic Mandalay Noble my

787
00:33:45,230 --> 00:33:42,060
name is Mandy Noble on the diet skeptic

788
00:33:46,580 --> 00:33:45,240
and I came here to talk to you about

789
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:46,590
something I thought would be a bit

790
00:33:52,670 --> 00:33:50,370
interesting thanks great but for this

791
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:52,680
week this is Richard Saunders signing

792
00:34:08,010 --> 00:34:05,869
[Music]

793
00:34:09,210 --> 00:34:08,020
we got one of the listeners here what

794
00:34:11,490 --> 00:34:09,220
was it like being in the audience for

795
00:34:13,409 --> 00:34:11,500
that they see there was some great

796
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:13,419
getting to see what he can suck so we

797
00:34:19,079 --> 00:34:15,760
see what okay now did you get some good

798
00:34:21,869 --> 00:34:19,089
diet advice did you yeah I did actually

799
00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:21,879
watched 50 kilograms so I wanted to come

800
00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:24,760
up and say I completely see what you

801
00:34:29,010 --> 00:34:26,950
made I didn't do any fad diet take this

802
00:34:30,780 --> 00:34:29,020
basic days I that was a white-knuckle

803
00:34:33,659 --> 00:34:30,790
thing you just had to do it hard

804
00:34:39,659 --> 00:34:33,669
yeah exactly exactly so yep I knew

805
00:34:41,700 --> 00:34:39,669
exactly what so Heidi how do you feel

806
00:34:44,430 --> 00:34:41,710
after you've done the big live show here

807
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:44,440
yeah it was really exciting and it was

808
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:46,210
great that room was packed and people

809
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:47,649
were even standing because it was no

810
00:34:50,430 --> 00:34:49,210
room yeah and they're very attentive in

811
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:50,440
fact we couldn't get to everybody with

812
00:34:54,780 --> 00:34:51,730
the microphone there were so many people

813
00:34:57,930 --> 00:34:54,790
I know now it was really nice to to be

814
00:34:59,339 --> 00:34:57,940
in front of a crowd rather than just on

815
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:59,349
my own in the office in front of a

816
00:35:04,530 --> 00:35:02,079
microphone yeah hello tell your dog to

817
00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:04,540
shut up that's all thing yeah and the

818
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:11,829
here we have a list all the way from

819
00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:14,400
ketubah that's right which I believe is

820
00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:15,630
that you're the highest person of

821
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:17,910
everyone who came along what was your

822
00:35:23,329 --> 00:35:21,450
favorite bit from today's show we just

823
00:35:27,789 --> 00:35:23,339
had excellent contributors all round you

824
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:27,799
know quality quality presentations

825
00:35:32,779 --> 00:35:30,240
enjoyed they and you even added to what

826
00:35:33,710 --> 00:35:32,789
Iran had to say there about about

827
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:33,720
bringing up girls

828
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:38,249
yes it's I'm an aunt and so I see them

829
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:44,130
from one step and I'm a teacher too so

830
00:35:49,489 --> 00:35:46,170
you know I have that kind of aspect that

831
00:35:54,589 --> 00:35:49,499
I I view it from and yeah it's it's a

832
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:54,599
it's an interesting social evolution

833
00:35:59,480 --> 00:35:57,450
that's happening that's very even though

834
00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:59,490
I agree with everything that Iran said I

835
00:36:04,009 --> 00:36:01,920
wouldn't say that in case I said

836
00:36:06,650 --> 00:36:04,019
something wrong and got it wrong in some

837
00:36:09,739 --> 00:36:06,660
small way and really stuffed it up yeah

838
00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:09,749
it took guts and I think he proved his

839
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:11,910
quality in taking that further

840
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:16,970
you know I ran go all right thank you

841
00:36:21,499 --> 00:36:19,650
wow you stirred up a hornet's nest with

842
00:36:22,729 --> 00:36:21,509
your diet advice there you come into the

843
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:22,739
skipped exam I've got a perfectly nice

844
00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:24,690
podcast you go pooping it over with your

845
00:36:30,890 --> 00:36:28,950
calorie intake talk I just wanted to set

846
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:30,900
the record straight on how I felt about

847
00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:32,970
weight loss diets intentional weight

848
00:36:36,229 --> 00:36:34,710
loss diets and what sort of people have

849
00:36:37,999 --> 00:36:36,239
been coming up to you challenging you

850
00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:38,009
well they haven't actually been

851
00:36:41,029 --> 00:36:39,630
challenging they've been interested to

852
00:36:42,589 --> 00:36:41,039
know about the studies that health

853
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:42,599
habits are far more important than

854
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:44,880
waiting in predicting health so it's

855
00:36:48,979 --> 00:36:46,170
been really good to share some of that

856
00:36:50,749 --> 00:36:48,989
knowledge okay and my BMI is edging into

857
00:36:51,620 --> 00:36:50,759
the overweight as well even looking at

858
00:36:53,299 --> 00:36:51,630
is that that's weird

859
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:53,309
I can't believe it looking at you I just

860
00:36:57,890 --> 00:36:56,640
think you've been your prime so oh look

861
00:36:59,660 --> 00:36:57,900
I write that down there's a

862
00:37:07,880 --> 00:36:59,670
recommendation on something I can I use

863
00:37:10,249 --> 00:37:07,890
that on tinder thank you let's go

864
00:37:11,599 --> 00:37:10,259
celebrate by having a low karela kink

865
00:37:16,910 --> 00:37:11,609
with lots of alcohol in it or something

866
00:37:19,009 --> 00:37:16,920
that's good I'm just here with the with

867
00:37:20,010 --> 00:37:19,019
the dr. Stefan now after that show what

868
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:20,020
did you think of it

869
00:37:23,970 --> 00:37:21,910
absolutely fabulous and the crowd

870
00:37:26,070 --> 00:37:23,980
responds to crowd the warmth of the

871
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:26,080
crowd if there were beautiful people as

872
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:27,850
a beautiful day you look at people who

873
00:37:30,780 --> 00:37:29,110
come from Melbourne people who come from

874
00:37:34,740 --> 00:37:30,790
Perth people that come from Kitumba

875
00:37:36,090 --> 00:37:34,750
people from England even that's wrong

876
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:36,100
there was a non dual citizen from

877
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:38,710
England nothing was Nigel Farage was not

878
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:41,290
heard I heard him yelling who are you is

879
00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:44,410
really has a pretty far-right extremist

880
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:46,030
views but but that's what the skippitito

881
00:37:51,540 --> 00:37:49,330
is all about before the show started I

882
00:37:53,220 --> 00:37:51,550
recommended some a highly non skeptical

883
00:37:54,450 --> 00:37:53,230
podcasts to people out there because I

884
00:37:57,060 --> 00:37:54,460
find that a lot of the skeptics don't

885
00:37:59,130 --> 00:37:57,070
expose themselves to too serious word

886
00:38:01,380 --> 00:37:59,140
that they that they do the consumer

887
00:38:03,330 --> 00:38:01,390
world but bit like free if you were to

888
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:03,340
listen to red eyes radio for example

889
00:38:09,060 --> 00:38:06,610
that that is a heavy-duty it's a

890
00:38:11,250 --> 00:38:09,070
heavy-duty supremacist show from from

891
00:38:14,070 --> 00:38:11,260
Sweden and but but they are morally

892
00:38:15,630 --> 00:38:14,080
correct within their universe so you get

893
00:38:17,070 --> 00:38:15,640
to understand what they're about even

894
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:17,080
though you will not agree with it it's

895
00:38:21,870 --> 00:38:18,850
interesting because that particular show

896
00:38:25,590 --> 00:38:21,880
I discovered that show all that the

897
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:25,600
person who runs it Heinrich a long time

898
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:27,760
ago I found him somewhere on YouTube or

899
00:38:32,010 --> 00:38:29,650
he liked a video that I did or something

900
00:38:33,540 --> 00:38:32,020
and there was some element of what he

901
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:33,550
was on about that was actually I

902
00:38:37,290 --> 00:38:35,290
resonated with her I thought that's the

903
00:38:39,570 --> 00:38:37,300
he's he's onto something there and that

904
00:38:42,570 --> 00:38:39,580
but the more I the more I listen the

905
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:42,580
wacky regard well they would say that

906
00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:45,250
they're being skeptical to the or

907
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:46,500
they're trying to give an even-handed

908
00:38:50,730 --> 00:38:49,210
opinion to the subject of immigration to

909
00:38:52,770 --> 00:38:50,740
Sweden for example that sort of thing

910
00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:52,780
and and you go okay someone's being

911
00:38:57,830 --> 00:38:54,400
even-handed looking at both sides and

912
00:38:59,700 --> 00:38:57,840
and yeah mmm well I guess it's difficult

913
00:39:01,530 --> 00:38:59,710
waiting's got the issue with the way

914
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:01,540
they've got the highest amount of

915
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:03,850
immigrants per capita in all of Europe I

916
00:39:07,340 --> 00:39:05,050
think the only other country the tie

917
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:07,350
might be Norway I saw some some

918
00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:09,850
infographic animated infographics other

919
00:39:14,460 --> 00:39:12,190
day that that showed all the migration

920
00:39:17,550 --> 00:39:14,470
over the last so at so many years and it

921
00:39:20,070 --> 00:39:17,560
was just this literally a swarm that was

922
00:39:22,620 --> 00:39:20,080
just pouring into Germany and Sweden and

923
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:22,630
I was thinking that's I'm not sure if

924
00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:24,250
everyone's ready for that because it's

925
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:26,950
happening so quickly also I'm not quite

926
00:39:31,140 --> 00:39:28,810
like if you're from the Middle East the

927
00:39:32,590 --> 00:39:31,150
climate of Sweden and the culture of

928
00:39:34,060 --> 00:39:32,600
Sweden suddenly moved too

929
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:34,070
socialist state that's up near the

930
00:39:40,260 --> 00:39:37,610
Arctic Circle it's pretty radical yeah

931
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:40,270
so whoever's agreed to do that has

932
00:39:46,330 --> 00:39:42,890
challenged society to some pretty it's

933
00:39:48,190 --> 00:39:46,340
some pretty heavy engineering so it's

934
00:39:50,010 --> 00:39:48,200
you could understand how people who are

935
00:39:52,450 --> 00:39:50,020
they're going oh my god what's happen I

936
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:52,460
thought once myself

937
00:39:57,220 --> 00:39:55,130
if if I was suddenly walking around my

938
00:39:59,620 --> 00:39:57,230
town where I live and all of a sudden

939
00:40:03,120 --> 00:39:59,630
every single person that I encountered

940
00:40:05,590 --> 00:40:03,130
was covered in a great big black chief

941
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:05,600
what do I still feel comfortable and

942
00:40:09,700 --> 00:40:07,490
what it says it's all about proportion

943
00:40:11,710 --> 00:40:09,710
because you know a few you'd go that's

944
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:11,720
right minority whatever but if I was the

945
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:14,090
only one who wasn't like that

946
00:40:19,570 --> 00:40:16,930
I've start to feel quite out of place

947
00:40:21,070 --> 00:40:19,580
it's also interested me in the sociology

948
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:21,080
of Sweden because they say things and I

949
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:22,970
go look it up and they're taking the

950
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:24,770
extreme end of what happens who so it's

951
00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:26,930
so so you've also got a you've also got

952
00:40:31,390 --> 00:40:28,310
to learn your sources but it's a great

953
00:40:33,610 --> 00:40:31,400
skeptically exercise it is as well it

954
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:33,620
brings out human nature a little bit as

955
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:36,170
well because I think all of us as humans

956
00:40:41,770 --> 00:40:38,480
biologically and then historically we

957
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:41,780
are sort of we like people who we can

958
00:40:46,180 --> 00:40:44,330
relate to I think and and that's and

959
00:40:48,010 --> 00:40:46,190
that's not to say where we hate people

960
00:40:50,020 --> 00:40:48,020
we can't relate to it's just that we

961
00:40:53,740 --> 00:40:50,030
prefer if I have a chat with you about

962
00:40:56,020 --> 00:40:53,750
80s pop music we'd resonate a lot yeah I

963
00:40:58,720 --> 00:40:56,030
mean like we're both down with the with

964
00:41:02,290 --> 00:40:58,730
the sound of Fred fair bass of course

965
00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:02,300
they lead singer of Right Said Fred was

966
00:41:06,610 --> 00:41:04,340
that baritone voices fantastic and

967
00:41:13,810 --> 00:41:06,620
soft-sell what a great battle in our

968
00:41:15,490 --> 00:41:13,820
common our common anti need a boy music

969
00:41:17,050 --> 00:41:15,500
brilliant music I'm just gonna go and

970
00:41:19,090 --> 00:41:17,060
follow the career of Dave ball a bit

971
00:41:20,830 --> 00:41:19,100
closer yeah I think we should with you

972
00:41:26,930 --> 00:41:20,840
thank you mate that was an interesting

973
00:41:26,940 --> 00:41:41,550
[Music]

974
00:41:46,980 --> 00:41:46,080
hey Richard oh hi Trish Wow would you

975
00:41:48,210 --> 00:41:46,990
like a coffee

976
00:41:50,700 --> 00:41:48,220
yeah thanks what you're working on

977
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:50,710
trying to come up with a new promo to

978
00:41:55,590 --> 00:41:52,770
play on the sceptic zone who's it for

979
00:41:58,200 --> 00:41:55,600
the good thinking Society in the UK you

980
00:42:00,120 --> 00:41:58,210
know Michael Marshall Simon Singh Laura

981
00:42:01,740 --> 00:42:00,130
Thomas and background oh yeah I know

982
00:42:04,220 --> 00:42:01,750
them they've been doing some great work

983
00:42:06,930 --> 00:42:04,230
investigating veterinary homeopathy

984
00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:06,940
veterinary homeopathy what you sugarpill

985
00:42:10,380 --> 00:42:09,310
this for cows I know right and also

986
00:42:12,650 --> 00:42:10,390
they're looking at some of the dodgy

987
00:42:15,060 --> 00:42:12,660
medical advice given by UK chiropractors

988
00:42:18,060 --> 00:42:15,070
really okay look I'll mention all that

989
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:18,070
in the promo now their website is good

990
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:22,450
thinking society cool and they've

991
00:42:25,380 --> 00:42:23,770
recently been reporting on the

992
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:25,390
resurgence of faith healer peter Popoff

993
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:28,330
you know right okay look thanks for that

994
00:42:50,190 --> 00:42:29,680
it gives me something good to think

995
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:50,200
about well here we are and are very

996
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:52,510
important in us sure some things go past

997
00:42:56,130 --> 00:42:54,130
without anyone eating but there's no way

998
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:56,140
you can possibly go without eating when

999
00:43:00,240 --> 00:42:57,490
at richardsaunders birthday happy

1000
00:43:02,940 --> 00:43:00,250
birthday Richard thank you thank you

1001
00:43:04,380 --> 00:43:02,950
oh we've got a few intimate people here

1002
00:43:05,580 --> 00:43:04,390
we've got you know Tim over there were

1003
00:43:07,770 --> 00:43:05,590
another Tim over there I get them

1004
00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:07,780
confused hi Tim how are you hi I'm the

1005
00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:10,240
other chairman very well may not how are

1006
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:11,680
you we're enjoying some fish and chips

1007
00:43:14,370 --> 00:43:12,970
at the club at the end of the street

1008
00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:14,380
there what's the best present you've got

1009
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:16,270
for your birthday Richard all of them

1010
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:18,730
may not all of them

1011
00:43:27,110 --> 00:43:22,960
Lara gave me some wonderful walking dead

1012
00:43:30,570 --> 00:43:27,120
little um what do they call these yeah

1013
00:43:31,530 --> 00:43:30,580
Katherine gave me a space pen yes now I

1014
00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:31,540
thought you would have one of them

1015
00:43:34,350 --> 00:43:32,620
that's one of those ones that they

1016
00:43:36,330 --> 00:43:34,360
advertise as being able to write upside

1017
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:36,340
down and underwater I have to go to

1018
00:43:43,740 --> 00:43:38,710
space to use it but Tim Ferguson gave me

1019
00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:43,750
a original artwork yes this is actually

1020
00:43:47,820 --> 00:43:46,300
some of Tim's outsider art Tim and how

1021
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:47,830
would you describe the image that you

1022
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:50,170
drew and the on way that you projected

1023
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:52,210
for Richard it's a man with a dream

1024
00:43:58,130 --> 00:43:53,130
looking

1025
00:44:00,920 --> 00:43:58,140
forward to many many years of joy okay I

1026
00:44:03,170 --> 00:44:00,930
thought it was Paul McDermott that

1027
00:44:06,410 --> 00:44:03,180
description does not at all describe

1028
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:06,420
comment but you've been on the ABC today

1029
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:08,609
talking about some from some dirty stuff

1030
00:44:13,519 --> 00:44:10,970
Richard yeah it was a bit strange I was

1031
00:44:15,319 --> 00:44:13,529
very short notice called into the ABC

1032
00:44:18,380 --> 00:44:15,329
here and Sydney to do a hookup to Darwin

1033
00:44:22,670 --> 00:44:18,390
and the topic was basically UFOs min min

1034
00:44:25,460 --> 00:44:22,680
light and the sky booboo I've looked at

1035
00:44:28,339 --> 00:44:25,470
the sky boob photo and I think it looks

1036
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:28,349
like a sky cupcake with little cherry on

1037
00:44:32,089 --> 00:44:30,480
top but you know that's just my mind my

1038
00:44:34,099 --> 00:44:32,099
mind goes to confectionery when it

1039
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:34,109
shouldn't really but we've got someone

1040
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:35,730
here who's been going through the

1041
00:44:40,130 --> 00:44:37,680
comments on the alleged sky boob and

1042
00:44:41,539 --> 00:44:40,140
what have you found Laura oh no I was

1043
00:44:42,980 --> 00:44:41,549
just reading the actual article itself

1044
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:42,990
this isn't even the card even got to the

1045
00:44:45,859 --> 00:44:44,250
comments oh okay

1046
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:45,869
oh this is this is actual journalists

1047
00:44:50,089 --> 00:44:47,970
it's written yes our great first line of

1048
00:44:52,279 --> 00:44:50,099
the article darwin resident dean stocks

1049
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:52,289
reckons this UFO is the weirdest thing

1050
00:44:57,410 --> 00:44:56,160
he's seen sober and looked at saying a

1051
00:44:58,819 --> 00:44:57,420
lot up that end as well because they've

1052
00:45:01,400 --> 00:44:58,829
got darwin stubby's up there they're

1053
00:45:04,279 --> 00:45:01,410
fantastic the old down stuff is there

1054
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:04,289
like a two-liter bottle of beer okay we

1055
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:05,450
don't have things like that in england

1056
00:45:10,670 --> 00:45:08,490
confusing me may you can have you can

1057
00:45:12,049 --> 00:45:10,680
have a responsible drinking without that

1058
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:12,059
kind of thing in england you can do it

1059
00:45:16,670 --> 00:45:13,920
just in small cans yeah we just get

1060
00:45:17,809 --> 00:45:16,680
massive bottles of cheap cider yeah so

1061
00:45:18,499 --> 00:45:17,819
what did you have to say about it

1062
00:45:22,220 --> 00:45:18,509
Richard

1063
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:22,230
well I I discovered that this whatever

1064
00:45:26,049 --> 00:45:24,240
it is and it does look like a cupcake or

1065
00:45:28,249 --> 00:45:26,059
something pink in the Scott what's this

1066
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:28,259
comments have been closed for this story

1067
00:45:34,519 --> 00:45:32,130
damn it boob came up too often probably

1068
00:45:36,740 --> 00:45:34,529
did now I was talking about that and I

1069
00:45:38,359 --> 00:45:36,750
was discovered that it's looked

1070
00:45:40,249 --> 00:45:38,369
identical in different photographs which

1071
00:45:42,410 --> 00:45:40,259
is a bit suspicious but I was talking

1072
00:45:43,730 --> 00:45:42,420
about UFOs and ghosts and the moon moon

1073
00:45:47,180 --> 00:45:43,740
lights and all that sort of stuff

1074
00:45:48,740 --> 00:45:47,190
okay well look now up one things that I

1075
00:45:49,870 --> 00:45:48,750
know is you avoided because I sent it to

1076
00:45:52,009 --> 00:45:49,880
you because the evidence was

1077
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:52,019
incontrovertible Richard is that the

1078
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:54,690
these that brutal film of the Kennedy

1079
00:45:57,980 --> 00:45:56,400
assassination is a complete forgery I

1080
00:45:59,539 --> 00:45:57,990
sent you information that that proved

1081
00:46:01,339 --> 00:45:59,549
that and you you've denied it you've

1082
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:01,349
denied it Richard you you and the shadow

1083
00:46:06,060 --> 00:46:04,930
elite we did I was on another way yes

1084
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:06,070
different one here in Sydney this

1085
00:46:10,740 --> 00:46:08,130
morning and they wanted to know that JFK

1086
00:46:13,620 --> 00:46:10,750
Elvis and Princess Diana

1087
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:13,630
that's three very disparate theories

1088
00:46:17,610 --> 00:46:15,610
there well they're all tied in with

1089
00:46:20,310 --> 00:46:17,620
conspiracy theories you know who killed

1090
00:46:22,890 --> 00:46:20,320
JFK who killed Diana and his silver

1091
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:22,900
still alive so did they spring this

1092
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:24,970
Underwood to come up with no no I knew

1093
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:26,290
that was going to be the topic so I

1094
00:46:29,550 --> 00:46:28,210
talked about the coroner's report for

1095
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:29,560
Elvis I talked about the fact that

1096
00:46:33,780 --> 00:46:31,090
Princess died wasn't wearing a seat belt

1097
00:46:35,580 --> 00:46:33,790
and I said that Lee Harvey Oswald shot

1098
00:46:36,450 --> 00:46:35,590
the President Kennedy and they said it's

1099
00:46:38,370 --> 00:46:36,460
yeah okay

1100
00:46:40,650 --> 00:46:38,380
no wonder we here at the era cell you're

1101
00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:40,660
no fun at parties Richard Oh tell you to

1102
00:46:43,830 --> 00:46:41,710
Mendham you had something to say on that

1103
00:46:45,780 --> 00:46:43,840
yeah I've got a theory which I've just

1104
00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:45,790
developed actually only occurred to me

1105
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:48,910
and Elvis Princess Diana and Jay okay

1106
00:46:54,300 --> 00:46:52,480
all died sitting down that's the point

1107
00:46:57,390 --> 00:46:54,310
oh yeah I find that significant thank

1108
00:47:00,810 --> 00:46:57,400
you right so it's it's big chair getting

1109
00:47:06,150 --> 00:47:00,820
to people again the big chair until this

1110
00:47:07,890 --> 00:47:06,160
case big toilet that's control yeah well

1111
00:47:10,110 --> 00:47:07,900
Richard um so what do you want to say to

1112
00:47:12,110 --> 00:47:10,120
people on this spacious day of your

1113
00:47:15,380 --> 00:47:12,120
birthday

1114
00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:15,390
um what he's trying to say is buy me a

1115
00:47:37,230 --> 00:47:17,350
present

1116
00:47:42,220 --> 00:47:39,640
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1117
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:42,230
urn here is the loose ends part of the

1118
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:44,330
show where we bring you extra

1119
00:47:48,220 --> 00:47:46,130
information and bits of news and a bit

1120
00:47:51,610 --> 00:47:48,230
of sad news I must say we're going to

1121
00:47:53,290 --> 00:47:51,620
bring you now a long time and much

1122
00:47:57,010 --> 00:47:53,300
revered skeptic here in Australia

1123
00:47:59,260 --> 00:47:57,020
professor Colin groves died recently in

1124
00:48:02,350 --> 00:47:59,270
fact on the 30th of November he was a

1125
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:02,360
professor of biological anthropology at

1126
00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:04,310
the Australian National University and

1127
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:05,510
one of the world's leading

1128
00:48:10,420 --> 00:48:08,240
anthropologists who identified more than

1129
00:48:12,730 --> 00:48:10,430
50 species of animals during his career

1130
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:12,740
he was an active member of Australian

1131
00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:14,810
sceptics and had many published

1132
00:48:20,650 --> 00:48:16,880
skeptical papers and letters as recently

1133
00:48:23,140 --> 00:48:20,660
as this year he also conducted regular

1134
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:23,150
debates with creationists but he was an

1135
00:48:29,950 --> 00:48:27,170
inspiration for many people I found out

1136
00:48:32,350 --> 00:48:29,960
this sad news fire our friend professor

1137
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:32,360
Paul Willis in fact who who also knew

1138
00:48:36,730 --> 00:48:34,310
Colin Grove so to the family friends of

1139
00:48:39,790 --> 00:48:36,740
family and that's all of us I guess of

1140
00:48:40,630 --> 00:48:39,800
Colin groves the sympathies from the

1141
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:40,640
sceptic zone

1142
00:48:48,430 --> 00:48:44,720
I only saw Colin maybe two three years

1143
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:48,440
ago in Canberra so sad to think he's

1144
00:48:54,250 --> 00:48:51,680
he's gone and thank you to those people

1145
00:48:56,130 --> 00:48:54,260
as ever who contribute to the sceptic

1146
00:49:00,370 --> 00:48:56,140
zone to keep the show going I picked up

1147
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:00,380
some new patreon patrons just recently

1148
00:49:04,990 --> 00:49:02,810
thank you very much your origami DVD is

1149
00:49:06,940 --> 00:49:05,000
on the way for those people who do

1150
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:06,950
decide to support the sceptic zone via

1151
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:11,210
patreon I support over certain limit I

1152
00:49:18,310 --> 00:49:14,810
send you a an origami DVD not a DVD made

1153
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:18,320
out of origami DVD teaching you how to

1154
00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:20,720
make origami which I produced about ten

1155
00:49:25,540 --> 00:49:22,910
years ago with my friend Gary Clark uh

1156
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:25,550
and if you decide to chip in a bit more

1157
00:49:29,860 --> 00:49:28,130
you also get a signed card from myself

1158
00:49:32,170 --> 00:49:29,870
and James Randi ooh

1159
00:49:34,540 --> 00:49:32,180
that's pretty good I might I might

1160
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:34,550
joining myself more information at

1161
00:49:40,690 --> 00:49:37,490
skeptic zone TV and it always helps the

1162
00:49:42,550 --> 00:49:40,700
show if you leave a review on iTunes for

1163
00:49:44,830 --> 00:49:42,560
example although I noticed some years

1164
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:44,840
ago many years ago looking through some

1165
00:49:47,579 --> 00:49:46,250
of the reviews which are very kind thank

1166
00:49:49,259 --> 00:49:47,589
you very much for those people

1167
00:49:53,429 --> 00:49:49,269
who leave nice reviews there are a

1168
00:49:57,150 --> 00:49:53,439
couple of suspicious reviews very short

1169
00:49:59,609 --> 00:49:57,160
with funny names the person posting them

1170
00:50:01,829 --> 00:49:59,619
it looks like they're sneaking around as

1171
00:50:05,670 --> 00:50:01,839
ass knock-knock but but because a sock

1172
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:05,680
puppet a sock bug a sock puppet leaving

1173
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:07,930
shorts silly review sir yes thanks yeah

1174
00:50:10,289 --> 00:50:08,650
that helps

1175
00:50:12,420 --> 00:50:10,299
thank you very much but for the rest of

1176
00:50:15,509 --> 00:50:12,430
you leaving real reviews much

1177
00:50:19,469 --> 00:50:15,519
appreciated and for those people who are

1178
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:19,479
asking Henriette is behind me on another

1179
00:50:23,969 --> 00:50:20,890
chair having a sleep and Maude is

1180
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:23,979
outside the door why they do that I

1181
00:50:27,779 --> 00:50:25,930
don't know and this has been an

1182
00:50:31,019 --> 00:50:27,789
interesting session of recording this

1183
00:50:33,529 --> 00:50:31,029
segment of the show because I don't know

1184
00:50:36,089 --> 00:50:33,539
if it's the weather conditions or the

1185
00:50:39,449 --> 00:50:36,099
wind conditions that's where the

1186
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:39,459
conditions I suppose or it's just the

1187
00:50:44,849 --> 00:50:41,890
turn of this suburb but I've had to stop

1188
00:50:51,620 --> 00:50:44,859
at least every three minutes for a heavy

1189
00:50:56,459 --> 00:50:54,239
things going to different parts of the

1190
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:56,469
world or different capital cities from

1191
00:51:00,620 --> 00:50:59,920
Australia it's been just one of those

1192
00:51:02,819 --> 00:51:00,630
days

1193
00:51:08,489 --> 00:51:02,829
remarkable air traffic right over my

1194
00:51:11,519 --> 00:51:08,499
house home the things you don't hear in

1195
00:51:12,929 --> 00:51:11,529
fact here comes another one well

1196
00:51:14,579 --> 00:51:12,939
normally I stopped my planes going

1197
00:51:17,939 --> 00:51:14,589
overhead but since there's one every two

1198
00:51:21,929 --> 00:51:17,949
minutes now I'm Paris on before I go

1199
00:51:24,929 --> 00:51:21,939
another reminder of the the meeting the

1200
00:51:27,359 --> 00:51:24,939
the meet up the more tea skeptics from

1201
00:51:30,900 --> 00:51:27,369
our friends down at the Maury skeptics

1202
00:51:32,489 --> 00:51:30,910
in Victoria next Tuesday the 5th of

1203
00:51:34,919 --> 00:51:32,499
December which is only in a couple of

1204
00:51:36,870 --> 00:51:34,929
days dr. ken Harvey is speaking to the

1205
00:51:39,259 --> 00:51:36,880
Morrie skeptics on the important topic

1206
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:39,269
an update on advertising and

1207
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:42,609
complimentary medicine regulatory reform

1208
00:51:49,140 --> 00:51:46,569
and this should be a very interesting

1209
00:51:51,419 --> 00:51:49,150
talk indeed links on the show notes it

1210
00:51:53,699 --> 00:51:51,429
will be at the Morty skeptics meeting

1211
00:51:56,130 --> 00:51:53,709
which is 7:30 p.m. on the 5th of

1212
00:51:59,130 --> 00:51:56,140
December at the Maury Alec sporting club

1213
00:52:01,200 --> 00:51:59,140
Main Street board Alec and the note says

1214
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:01,210
join us for dinner beforehand at

1215
00:52:06,900 --> 00:52:05,170
Jack's restaurant at 6:15 p.m. I've had

1216
00:52:09,150 --> 00:52:06,910
the pleasure of going down to the Maury

1217
00:52:11,940 --> 00:52:09,160
attic skeptics a number of times and

1218
00:52:14,090 --> 00:52:11,950
it's always a great evening so new

1219
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:14,100
people in Melbourne and around the area

1220
00:52:21,150 --> 00:52:17,650
why not head for that but for this week

1221
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:21,160
with I think it's probably an a UFO now

1222
00:52:25,260 --> 00:52:23,530
hovering over their house in formation

1223
00:52:27,450 --> 00:52:25,270
with 20 others

1224
00:52:30,930 --> 00:52:27,460
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1225
00:52:36,990 --> 00:52:30,940
from the flight path Sydney New South

1226
00:52:39,690 --> 00:52:37,000
Wales you've been listening to the

1227
00:52:44,270 --> 00:52:39,700
skeptic zone podcast please visit our

1228
00:52:47,580 --> 00:52:44,280
website at WWDC because shownotes

1229
00:52:51,630 --> 00:52:47,590
contacts and to access the bat catalog

1230
00:52:53,490 --> 00:52:51,640
of episodes going back to 2008 you can

1231
00:52:56,550 --> 00:52:53,500
follow the skeptic zone podcast on

1232
00:52:58,830 --> 00:52:56,560
twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1233
00:53:02,190 --> 00:52:58,840
facebook page or leave a review on

1234
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:02,200
iTunes you can also support the skeptic

1235
00:53:07,770 --> 00:53:05,920
zone via patreon or PayPal you can be

1236
00:53:12,170 --> 00:53:07,780
part of the show by downloading the

1237
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:12,180
voice byte app at Voice bite comm and

1238
00:53:18,780 --> 00:53:15,970
using the hashtag skeptic zone the

1239
00:53:20,730 --> 00:53:18,790
skeptic zone podcast is an independent

1240
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:20,740
production reviews and opinions

1241
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:22,960
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1242
00:53:28,060 --> 00:53:25,090
necessarily those of Australian skeptics

1243
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:28,070
or any other sceptical organization

1244
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:08,780
what are you doing I've got a podcast to

1245
00:54:14,780 --> 00:54:13,290
do you them you sleep stay on the chair

1246
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:14,790
when you stay on the floor is that

1247
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:18,090
Alright are we gonna deal now don't walk

1248
00:54:32,140 --> 00:54:23,250
over there you can lie there as long as

1249
00:54:38,270 --> 00:54:34,790
yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

1250
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:38,280
episode number 476 for the 3rd of

1251
00:54:43,250 --> 00:54:41,370
December 2017 Richard Saunders here with